UFO hearing at the House Oversight Committee: 3 witnesses

2:22think is it to representative Luna Mr chairman yeah we'll we'll call him Ms Luna for her statement their circumstances surrounding uaps has captivated the intention of the American people for decades ingrained in even the minds of our nation's leaders from Jimmy Carter to Barack Obama Hillary Clinton to Donald Trump Marco Rubio de Chuck Schumer John Radcliffe to National Security Council officials yet from Roswell New Mexico to the coast of Jacksonville Florida the sightings of uaps have rarely been explained by the people who have first-hand accounts of these situations this is largely due to the lack of transparency by our own government and the failure of our elected leaders to make good on their promises to release explanations and footage and mountains of over-classified documents that continue to be hidden from the American people

3:08this isn't just how I feel in fact the American people largely believe that the government has actively covered up the truth about uaps one poll in particular found that 68 percent of Americans believe that the government is hiding information about uaps and not being honest about what we know about them and from my personal experience I believe the same thing another poll found that nearly half Americans believe that the federal government is doing a very bad or somewhat bad job of dealing with reports of UFO sightings as representative burchett just referenced on the fa bill that just went through you can tell that that's exactly happening considering the thousands of testimonies and videos taken on people's phones and eyewitnesses accounts made by credible Witnesses such as doctors Pilots scientists and active duty service members is unacceptable to continue to

3:55Gaslight Americans into thinking that this is not happening or that the potential of intelligence intelligent life forms exists other than humans even more alarming is the fact that these eyewitnesses are many of times service members and have no assurance that their lives will not be negatively impacted or even harmed by their experiences in being an active duty service member working on an Airfield I've had conversations with many Pilots where they were in fear of coming forward for Retribution and or being taken off flight status how do we know this because the government has said nothing to assure us otherwise they have also did nothing to to calm the concerns of over 20 of Americans who have reported to have seen UFOs or uaps we are simply told not to question the government and that the

4:40government has it under control today is the first hearing of its kind where we will attempt to get down to the bottom of what is actually happening with uaps but we'll hear from people who have had personal sightings rather than Pentagon bureaucrats who have always been sent to Stonewall investigations just so that the Press knows and the people know we were even denied access to a classified briefing in a skiff prior to this hearing due the amount of Hoops that we had to jump through to Grant temporary clearance to witness Crush who has knowledge of classified information it is time to have an open-minded discussion on this topic to hear the evidence and understand the magnitude of what this means not just for our nation but for Humanity thank you chairman I yield back the rest of my time thank you very much and I'd like to thank you thank you and Mr burchett for bringing this topic to my attention uh

5:26now we'll recognize National Security subcommittee ranking member Garcia for 10 minutes foreign well thank you Mr chairman and I want to thank first our Witnesses for joining us today I want to begin by thanking you all for your service to our country I mean for sharing your voices uh today and your courage to be here as well uh to Mr Graves uh particularly grateful to you to spend some time that we had for you to share with Candor um some of your experiences so I appreciate that as well I do want to thank all the members of our subcommittee today and also those that are here and have waved on for their incredible interest in this issue uh particularly to Congressman bird should I know that your leadership has brought up to this place today and I want to thank you for uh for that as well as everyone else it's been engaged

6:11in this work I also want to thank the oversight staff who I know has been working very hard to ensure that today's hearing is serious that it's transparent and that it also provides appropriate answers as our oversight body always demands now it's really important that we're here in a bipartisan way to have this conversation which really to the heart of it is about National Security and key to the subcommittee's corporate purpose this is the subcommittee on National Security of the oversight committee now our witnesses will testify today that uaps have posed a serious safety threat and we must understand this more broadly we're dealing with real questions they get to the heart of our faith in government faith in our institutions as we all know is at an all-time low partisanship and alternative facts make it too easy to

6:56doubt narrative or into or our institutions but this hearing will offer the public unique perspectives building on years of reporting by both federal agencies and the Independent Media now some of the earliest reporting on this issue was a groundbreaking 2017 New York Times report which we which revealed research as we know now on unidentified anomalous phenomena as many call UFOs by the defense intelligence agency Mr Graves and Commander forever's experiences with uaps have also been documented by the public not just by the New York Times but CNN and many other national news outlets now the office of the Director of National Intelligence has published public reports documenting uaps and on June 9 2022 NASA announced that the agency is commissioning a study to of course examine unidentified

7:41anomalous phenomena now the sheer number of reports whistleblowers and stories of unidentified anomalous phenomena should raise real questions and warrant investigation and oversight and that's why we are here today now Pilots have reported encounters for years now because of the stigma around reporting these incidents we still don't have a complete picture of actually what's going on particularly as our witnesses will testify on the civilian side and that is a real problem that we have today in the country now it's very important that we show that Democrats and Republicans in Congress can come together in a bipartisan way to cut through misinformation and to look at the facts in a serious and thoughtful manner if we are to advance oversight and public disclosure we must also gain the broad support of the public we will

8:26succeed getting facts out to the public faster if there is a broad public support as part of the process now I understand fully the Department of Defense is hesitant to share information that could also undermine our national security by revealing information on the capabilities of our own aircraft our sensors and other sensitive material at the same time many people believe that we're withholding information from them and that is dangerous also I believe in openness and transparency that is also the role of Congress and I want to trust that the American people will be able to weigh the evidence and make up their own minds now we have incidents where in sensors sometimes even multiple types of sensors detect things that we cannot explain uaps whatever they may be May pose a serious threat to our military or

9:11civilian aircraft and that must be understood now my career in training as a long time and career educator and teacher and researcher tell me that we should never rule anything out we know that our space of course is vast and undiscovered I also want to note that Mr Sean Kirkpatrick director of the all domain anomaly resolution office the component of the dod office that investigates UAP data has testified before the Senate this year that his unit has found no evidence of extra x-ray electivity NASA has also stated they don't have evidence of extraterrestrial life either and we've heard this of course from some of our government agencies and we should remind viewers and Witnesses which I think is really important that we also cannot share classified information in public settings but questions of course

9:57remain that people want to see data and information for themselves the enormous interest in the hearing today underscores the importance of a fair and open look at the evidence from Witnesses who can share their unique perspectives now I know I certainly have a lot of questions and I know that all the members of our committee do as well we should come to this hearing with an open mind and we should not let our existing ideas restrict us on either side I hear over and over from many agencies the stigma around reporting and investigating uaps prevents us from getting real answers we know that whistleblowers have reported harassment intimidation or stigma as well and this is not acceptable if people can't report incidents which would have National Security or safety implications then that also has serious consequences for us as ranking member of

10:42this subcommittee I know it's my I know my job would be completely impossible if whistleblowers or others feel intimidated to come before this committee we can't be afraid of asking questions and we can't be afraid of the truth I'm proud to say that that's a hearing builds upon bipartisan work by members of the House and Senate dating many years back which is sought to increase awareness within the Department of Defense and more and to mandate more of Congress of uaps we know the Senate is taking up an amendment to their defense authorization bill which will create a commission with broad declassification Authority and we can all should all agree that that is an important step members of both parties and Senior officials in multiple administrations have taken an interest in this issue and we're proud to carry and build that confidence in the American people this hearing will also not be the end of this discussion but a

11:28new chapter and start to years and years of work that many folks both in both in the public and within government have been working on we should encourage more reporting not less on uaps the more they under we understand the safer we will be we looked your testimony from Witnesses today with a long record of service to the American people and with subject matter expertise art Witnesses have a unique opportunity to share the prospective insights and their experiences with the American people and I encourage all of my colleagues to engage with these difficult questions with an open mind and to follow the facts on behalf of our country I also just want to say more broadly that we should look at this hearing with and believe that everything is on the table as it relates to uaps I think we an open mind is absolutely the best I want to

12:13yield there are two and a half minutes of the remainder of my time to the representative from Florida representative Moskowitz for an opening statement he also has been very much engaged in this issue and I want to thank him for his leadership Congressman uh thank you ranking member Garcia thank you Mr chairman I want to thank uh Tim burchett and Anna Paulina Luna for their leadership in pushing this hearing forward I want to thank obviously committee staff and their staff working on this on a bipartisan basis because many Americans are deeply interested uh in this issue and it shouldn't take the potential of non-human origin to bring us together uh additionally I want to thank the witnesses for for coming forward to share your perspectives your thoughts and the sightings of uaps unlike other hearings many times in Congress you're

12:59not here to help a political party but you're here to share information with the American people and it's not something that is just going on in this Administration it's something that's uh spanned many administrations for decades many Americans have been fascinated by objects mysterious and unexplained and it's long past time that they got some answers the American public has a right to learn about Technologies of unknown Origins non-human intelligence and unexplainable phenomena those are not the words of a UFO Twitter account though that is a direct quote for majority leader Chuck Schumer that the American public has a right to learn about Technologies of unknown Origins non-human intelligence and unexplainable phenomena in an interview with Fox News

13:44recent former Director of National Intelligence John Radcliffe confirmed the U.S government is aware a lot more sightings of uaps and that they have not made that information public I quote there are a lot more sightings that have not been made public Radcliffe said to Fox News for me this hearing is about transparency we unfortunately live in a time in which many people distrust government and our institutions and over classification of information away from the American public or even Congress contributes to today's Politics the American people have regular questions what are uaps how come the media doesn't report more on them are they foreign adversaries are the U.S technology are they something else they ask themselves how come when a Russian jet shoots

14:30flares at one of our drones we have perfect pictures and videos to show the American people and the world but when it comes to uaps nothing of course we must always protect our national security to maintain our superiority like when stealth helicopters were only rumored to exist but were used in the Osama Bin Laden raid in 2011. but we can't allow that to be used as a shield to keep the American people completely in the dark from basic truths the American people deserve to hear more about special access programs Congress has a right to know if there's any unsanctioned weapons development satellite imagery that has not been provided to Congress Congress created the all-demain

15:16resolution office in the ndaa of 2022. in its initial analysis there are 171 uncharacterized UAP reports and this is the words from the report that appear to have demonstrated unusual flight characteristics or performance capabilities I believe more information is known about the 171 instances it's time for Congress to reinsert ourselves I call on our military leaders and intelligence officials to release more information to the American people about uaps and to our military leaders if there's nothing to conceal let Congress go to write Patterson Air Force Base The dugway Proving Ground or even Groom Lake in Nevada we should have disclosure today we

16:01should have disclosure tomorrow the time has come thank you ranking member thank you Mr Moskowitz and I would yield back now to our chairman thank you right now I'd like to introduce our Witnesses our first Witnesses Lieutenant Ryan Graves he's the executive director of Americans for safe Aerospace Lieutenant Graves is also a former U.S Navy F-18 pilot with the Zone UAP experience the next witness David grush is a former senior intelligence officer with the National geospatial Intelligence Agency and was a senior technical advisor for UAP issues and and finally finally retired Navy Commander date Commander David fraver Squadron leader who worked as an evil Aviator for 18 years Mr fraver has his own UAP

16:48experience known as The Tick Tock event I look forward to hearing from all three of you today pursuant to committee rule 9g the witnesses will please stand and raise their right hands do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God let the record show that all the witnesses answer in the affirmative you may be seated we appreciate you all being here today and look forward to your testimony I'll remind the witnesses that we have read your written statements and they will appear in full in the hearing record please try to limit your oral statements to five minutes as a reminder please press the button on the microphone in front of you so that it's on and the

17:34members can hear you when you begin to speak the light in front of you will turn green after four minutes it'll turn yellow and the red light when that comes on it tells you your five minutes have expired I'll now recognize Mr Graves for five minutes for your opening statement thank you chairman Rothman ranking member Garcia distinguished members of the House oversight subcommittee on National Security representative burchett and Luna my name is Ryan fob's Graves and I'm a former F-18 pilot with a decade of service in the U.S Navy including two deployments in operation enduring freedom and operation inherent resolve I have experienced Advanced UAP firsthand and I'm here to voice the concerns of more than 30 commercial air crew and military veterans who have confided their similar encounters with me today I would like to highlight three

18:20critical issues that demand our action as we convene here UAP are in our airspace but they are grossly under reported these sightings are not rare or isolated they are routine military air crew and commercial pilots trained observers whose lives depend on accurate identification are frequently witnessing these phenomena the stigma attached to UAP is real and powerful and challenges National Security it silences commercial pilots who fear professional repercussions discourages Witnesses it is only compounded by recent government claims questioning the credibility of eyewitness testimony parts of our government are aware of more about UAP than they let on but excessive classification practices keep crucial information hidden since 2021 all UAP videos are classified as secret

19:05or above this level of secrecy not only impedes our understanding but fuels speculation and mistrust in 2014 I was an F-18 foxtrot pilot in the Navy fighter attack Squadron 11 the red Rippers and I was stationed at NAS Oceana in Virginia Beach after upgrades were made to our Jets radar systems we began detecting unknown objects operating in our airspace at first we assume they are radar errors but soon we began to correlate the radar tract with multiple onboard sensors including infrared systems eventually through Visual ID during a training mission in warning area whiskey 72 10 miles off the coast of Virginia Beach two F-18 Super Hornets were split by UAP the object described as a dark gray or

19:50Black Cube inside of a clear sphere came within 50 feet of the lead aircraft and was estimated to be 5 to 15 feet in diameter the mission Commander terminated the flight immediately and returned base our Squadron submitted a safety Port but there was no official acknowledgment of the incident and no further mechanism to report the sightings soon these encounters became so frequent that aircrew would discuss the risk of UAP as part of their regular pre-flight briefs recognizing the need for action and answers I founded Americans for safe Aerospace the organization has since become a heaven for UAP Witnesses who were previously unspoken due to the absence of a safe intake process more than 30 Witnesses have come forward in almost 5 000 Americans have joined us in the fight for a transparency at safe aerospace.org

20:36the majority of Witnesses are commercial pilots at majority major airlines often they are veterans with Decades of flying experience Pilots are reporting UAP altitudes that appear above them at forty thousand feet potentially in low earth orbit or in the gray Zone below the Carmen line making inexplainable Maneuvers like right-hand turns and retrograde orbits or j-hooks sometimes these reports are reoccurring with numerous recent sightings north of Hawaii and in the North Atlantic other veterans are also coming forward to us regarding UAP Encounters in our airspace and oceans the most compelling involved observations of UAP by multiple Witnesses and sensor systems I believe these accounts are only scratching the surface and more will share their experiences once it is safe to do so in closing I recognize the skepticism

21:22surrounding this topic if everyone can see the sensor and video data I've witnessed our national conversation would change I urge us to put a size stigma and address the security and safety issue this topic represents if you appear foreign drones it is an urgent national security problem if it is something else is an issue for science in either case unidentified objects are concerned for flight safety the American people deserve to know what is happening in our skies it is long overdue thank you Mr Rush Mr chairman Reiki members and congressmen thank you I'm happy to be here this is an important issue and I'm grateful for your time my name is David Charles grush I was an

22:08intelligence officer for 14 years in the both in the U.S Air Force both active duty Air National Guard and Reserve at the rank of major and most recently from 2021 to 2025 or excuse me 2023 at the National geospatial Intelligence Agency NGA at the gs-15 civilian level which is the military equivalent of a full bird colonel I was my agency's co-lead and unidentified anomalous phenomena and transmedium object analysis as well as reporting to the UAP task force uaptf and eventually once it was established the all domain anomaly resolution office Arrow I became a whistleblower through a PPD 19

22:54urgent concern filing in May 2022 with the intelligence Community Inspector General following concerning reports from multiple esteemed and credentialed current and former military and intelligence Community individuals that the U.S government is operating with secrecy above Congressional oversights with regards to uaps my testimony is based on information I've been given by individuals with a long-standing track record of legitimacy and service to this country many of whom also have shared compelling evidence in the form of photography official documentation and classified oral testimony to myself and many my various colleagues

23:39I have taken every step I can to collaborate this evidence over a period of four years while I was with the UAP task force and do my due diligence on the individual sharing it this is because of these steps I believe strongly in the importance of bringing this information before you I am driven by a commitment of both to truth and transparency rooted in our inherent duty to uphold the United States Constitution and protect the American people I'm asking Congress to hold our government to this standard and thoroughly investigate these claims but as I stand here under oath now I am speaking to the facts as I have been told them in the U.S Air Force in my national reconnaissance office nro Reserve its

24:25capacity I was a member of the UAP task force from 2019 to 2021. I served at the narrow operations center on the directors briefing staff which included the coordination of the presidential Daily Brief and supporting variety of contingency operations which I was the reserve Intelligence Division Chief back up in 2019 the UAP task force director asked me to identify all special access programs and controlled access programs also known as saps and caps we needed to satisfy our congressionally mandated Mission and we were direct report at the time to the depth sect deaf at the time due to my extensive executive level intelligence support

25:10duties I was cleared to literally all relevant compartments and in a position of extreme trust both in my military and civilian capacities I was informed in the course of my official duties of a multi-decade UAP grass retrieval and reverse engineering program uh to which I was denied access to those additional read-ons when I uh requested it I made the decision based on the data I collected to report this information to my Superior superiors and multiple inspectors General and in effect becoming a whistleblower as you know I've suffered retaliation for my decision but I am hopeful that my actions will ultimately lead to a

25:55positive outcome of increased transparency thank you and I'm happy to answer your questions thank you uh Commander favor thank you thank you thank you to Chairman Congressman congresswoman I want to first thank you for the invitation to speak to the committee on the UAP topic this has been in the news for the past six years and seems to be continuing to gain momentum as you know my name is David fraver I'm retired commander in the United States Navy in 2004 I was a commanding officer of Strike Fighter Squadron 41 the world famous Black Aces if you're attached to carrier 11 station on board the USS Nimitz and it begun a two-month workup cycle off the coast of California on this day we were scheduled for a 2v2 aired air training with the USS Princeton as our control

26:41when we launched off knits my wingman was joining up we were told that the training was going to be suspended and we're doing we're going to proceed with real world tasking as we proceeded to the West the air controller was counting down the range to an object that we were going to and we were unaware of what we were going to see when we arrived their uh the controller told us that these objects had been observed for over two weeks coming down from over 80 000 feet rapidly descending to 20 000 feet hanging out for hours and then going straight back up for those who don't realize above 80 000 feet is space we arrived at the location at approximately 20 000 feet in a controller called merge plot which means that our radar blip was now in the same resolution cell as the contact as we looked around we noticed that we saw some white water off our right side

27:27it's important to note the weather on this day was as close to perfect as you could ask for off the coast of San Diego clear skies light winds calm seas no White Caps from waves so the Whitewater stood out in a large Blue Ocean all four of us because we were an f-18fs so we had pilots and wizzo in the backseat looked down a small saw white Tic Tac object with a longitudinal axis pointing North South and moving very abruptly over the water like a ping pong ball there were no rotors no rotor wash or any sign of visible control surfaces like wings as we started clockwise towards the object My Wizard and I decided to go down and take a closer look with the other aircraft staying in High cover to observe both us and the Tic Tac we proceeded around the circle about 90 degrees from the start of our descent and the object object suddenly shifted

28:12its longitudinal axis aligned it with my aircraft and began to climb we continued down another 270 degrees nose low where the Tic Tac or we consumed 270 degrees toward and we went nose load where the Tic Tac would have been our altitude at this point was about 15 000 feet and the Tic Tac was about 12 000. as we pulled nose onto the object within about a half mile of it it rapidly accelerated in front of us and disappeared our wingmen roughly 8 000 feet above us lost contact also we immediately turned back to see where the white water was at and it was gone also so we just started to turn back towards the east the controller came up and said sir you're not going to believe this but that thing is at your cat Point roughly 60 miles away in less than a minute you can calculate the speed we returned to Nimitz we were taking off our gear we were talking to one of my Cruisers

28:57getting ready to launch we mentioned it to them and they went out and luckily got the video that you see that 90 second video what you don't see is the radar tape that was never released and we don't know where it's at the act of jamming that the object put on an apg-73 radar and I can get into modes later if you're interested what is shocking to us is that the incident was never investigated none of my crew ever questioned tapes were never taken and after a couple days it turned into a great story with friends it wasn't until 2009 until Jay Stratton had contacted me to investigate unbeknownstall he was part of the atip program and the Pentagon led by louisando and there was an unofficial official report that came out that's now on the internet years later I was contacted by the other pilot Alex Dietrich and asked if I'd been contacted and I said no but I'm willing to talk I was contacted by Mr Elizondo and we

29:44talked for a short period of time and he said we'd be in contact a few weeks after that I was made a word that lewd left the Pentagon in protest and joined forces with Tom Delong Chris melon Steve Justice and others to form two stars Academy an organization that pressed the issue with leading industry experts and U.S government officials they worked with Leslie Keane who was present today Rob Blumenthal and Helene Cooper to publish the articles in the New York Times 2017 New York Times and it removed the stigma on the topic of UFOs which is why we're here today those articles opened the door for the government and public that cannot be closed it has led to an interest from our elected officials who are not focused on Little Green Men but figuring out where these crafts are where they from the technology they possess how do they operate it also led to the Whistleblower protection act in the ndaa

30:28there are multiple Witnesses coming forward to say uh that have first-hand knowledge and Mr grush has covered that what concerns me is that there's no oversight from our elected officials on anything associated with our government processing or working on Craft I believe not from this world this issue is not a full public disclosure that could undermine National Security but it is about ensuring that our system of checks and balances Works across all work done in the government using taxpayer funds relative to government programs even unacknowledged wave programs have some level of oversight by the appropriate committee members in the House and Senate and this work that is said to be occurring from whistleblower testimonies should not be exempt in closing I would like to say that the Tic Tac object we engaged in 2004 was far superior to anything that we had on time have today or looking to develop in the

31:11next 10 years if we in fact have programs that possess this technology and needs to have oversight from those people that the citizens of this great country elected an office to represent what is best for the United States and best for the citizens I thank you for your time thank you very much thank you very much I know it's very difficult for all of you all you've done in the past to try to illuminate this issue calm myself first for some questions I'm going to start with Mr graves are your Pilots our Pilots that you interact with as part of your organization do you feel adequately trained and briefed on how to handle encounters with uaps no right now uh military witnesses to UAP have limited options for reporting UAP but more more concerning is that commercial uh Aviation sector has not

31:56adapted to the lessons that the military has implemented the military and Department of Defense has stated that UAP represent a critical Aviation safety risk we have not seen that that same that same language being used in the commercial markets they are not acknowledging this risk okay what steps do you think you have to be taken to improve a pilot cop reporting be it military or commercial right now we need a system where Pilots can report without fear of losing their jobs there is a fear that the stigma associated with this topic is going to lead to professional repercussions either through management or perhaps through their yearly physical check so having a secure system reducing the stigma and making this available this information available through the public is going to reduce the concerns that

32:42aircrew have could you just give me a little idea that the degree to which reports in the past are are not made public right now well I don't think there has been a proper reporting system to gather those reports and thus not report them so to answer your question I think there is a dearth of data due to the fact that the reporting has been limited up to this time could you tell me why you believe it's kind of play The Devil's Advocate a reason why some of this stuff should not be available to the public there's certainly some National Security concerns when we use our Advanced sensors and our tactical Jets to be able to identify these these objects however there's no reason that the objects themselves would be classified I would be curious to see how the security classification guideline actually spells out the different nuances of how this

33:27topic is classified from the from the perspective of UAP not National Security I'll give you a follow-up on that assuming that there are reasons why not all this should be made public this has been around for a long period of time can you think of can any of the three of you think of any reason why anything related to uaps say 15 years in back should not be immediately made public I think one of it is uh acknowledging a vulnerability both from a collection and I'll just say A you know countermeasure perspective so it's uh no we haven't cracked for many years even say 20 years back is there any reason why when you go back that far things shouldn't be made public

34:12unless it shows a specific National Security vulnerability as it relates to a weakness and particular defense system okay Mr fravor the Tic Tac incident that you and that with that you were engaged occurred in 2004 what kind of reporting took place after that incident debrief where the backseaters went down to our carrier Intel Center and brief what had happened and that was it no one else talked to us and I was in the top 20 in the battle group no one came that Captain was aware Admiral was aware nothing was done you're commanding officers provide any sort of justification no because I was the commanding officer of the Squadron so no was this incident the only UAP event that you encountered while you were a

34:58pilot yes it was okay um this is for any one of you based on based off of each of your experiences and observations do you believe uaps pose a Potential Threat to our national security yes and here's why the the technology that we faced was far superior than anything that we had and you could put that anywhere if you if you had one you captured one you reverse engineered it you got it to work you're talking something can go into space go someplace drop down in a matter of seconds do whatever it wants and leave and there's nothing we can do about it nothing okay either the other YouTube I would also like to add from commercial

35:43Aviation and Military Aviation perspective we deal with uncertainty in our operating space as a matter of of our protection professional actions identifying friend from foe is very important to us and so when we have unidentified targets and we continue to ignore those due to a stigma or a fear of what it could be that's an opening that our adversaries can take advantage of what what uh steps should we take in to better understand and respond to UAP Encounters in the interest of National Security there needs to be a location where this information is centralized for processing and there needs to be a two-way communication Loop so the operators on the front end have a feedback and can can get best practices on how to process information what to do and to ensure that they they their reporting is being listened to right now there's not a lot of back and forth Mr

36:29gresh in your complaint to the intelligence Community inspector you Inspector General you claim that you believe information is being hidden what kind of information do you think was hidden and do you think it should remain hidden yes I can speak to that very briefly in unclassified manner as you know the preponderance of my complaint was classified to the intelligence communities uh both uh material acquisition and exploitation activity um also baselining the uaps but not sharing it with you know intelligence professionals that are actually doing step briefs to Pilots uh that that kind of information yeah okay thank you very much now we'll go to Mr Garcia thank you um again thank you all for for your service and for testifying today um I want to just uh talk about the UA pieces relates to what we're seeing in

37:15the Pilot's interaction with uaps particularly Mr Graves one of the I think concerns that for members of this committee is this idea that Pilots there's no system to actually report uaps and the stigma around pilots and so could you can you just briefly you mentioned there are you working with 30 Pilots right now that have had encounters with uaps uh but you've also I believe I'm discussed and know of many more pilots this is just those that you're currently working with is that correct can you expand on that certainly I'll break that down in two ways first when we were first experiencing these objects off the Eastern Seaboard in the 2014 to 2015 time period anyone that had upgraded their radar systems were seeing these objects so there was a large number of my colleagues that were detecting these objects off the Eastern Seaboard they were further correlating that information with the other onboard

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