Joe McMoneagle on UFOs and Project Stargate

3:00experiences, why he believes humans are not originally from this planet, and the incredible perplexing moment when an intelligence from inside of a UFO seemed to sever Joe's mind from viewing the target. And sincerely, my friends, just so much more. I am tempted to go on, believe me. But without further ado, here's the great Joe McMagle. Joe, so nice to officially meet you. I actually met you briefly at at the Gateway, but I know you do so many of those and I'm sure it's just a blur. >> A lot of them >> of faces. Yeah. >> 15 years of them. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. >> Yeah. >> So, I said I was going to try to ask you some things that maybe you haven't been asked a million times. And this is definitely something you have been asked, but I'm guessing this usually comes more toward the end of the

3:46conversation, which is sort of a more broadly philosophical question. You've lived a life that is intensely different than most people. You've had so many anomalous experiences. You've been involved in so many things that most people would consider to be paranormal. But then, of course, you also just live a life that everybody else is living. So, just right out of the gate, how has your view of reality sort of evolved as you've gotten to the stage of life that you're in now? That's a really good question because it it uh sort of opened the door to the one thing we should all understand. >> Okay. And that is that uh we we think we live in a single world

4:34where we share the world with everybody. >> Yeah. >> And uh everybody's either mcking it up for us or they're making it better or whatever. When in fact there's only one world. That's the one we're in. each one of us is in, they're separate from anything else because sharing that world with everybody else. If you only meet somebody for a couple hours across a year, let's say, the best you could say is, "Hey, where you been?" They say, "Oh, I went to an island and lived there all all year." >> And you can only say, "I believe you." You can never know for sure. So the only world you're in charge of is yours. It teaches you immediately by having

5:21that understanding that everything that happens to you, good, bad, or indifferent, you are the cause of it. >> Most people won't accept that. >> Yeah. And and I know because of having watched so many of your interviews and having read some of your books that when you say that you mean that on kind of a deeper level than I think most people, you know, they they hear, "Oh, you either make it happen or you don't." They're probably thinking about that on a very >> surface level, but that might go to a very deep onlogical level. Once you start getting into, oh, >> absolutely. >> Well, what is you? what what is the totality of of self or you know the total self as Bob >> would say. Um so so when you say that that it's really all up to you

6:07>> is are you talking about that kind of more deep level? >> Absolutely. You're talking about >> uh every action that you make, every decision you make, everything that you do has a direct effect on you. >> Mhm. Of course, it affects others too to a lesser lesser degree. But it's the very reason why we might be having a really really bad life and a really really good life. >> Yeah. >> It's how we receive what things happen do to us and how we respond to them. We can either try to be better or figure out a way to fix whatever is going on or not. But we

6:53certainly can't say I'm in this mood because the world is crappy. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> It's what you do with it. >> That that's a thing that a lot of people don't want to hear. But since we're since we're asking these really big questions like from the beginning, >> what what do you think the self is, >> you know, like like beyond this mortal shell? Like what what is the the reality of, you know, the higher self, the total self? How have you come to understand that if at all? >> Well, we don't really know because nobody's actually been dead a long time and come back. So well they they might have but they don't remember where they

7:38were or who they were before uh except in very rare cases. Um one of the ways that we know that is by virtue of the fact that uh you've heard the expression at death when people have come very very close to death. They've had this what they call a near-death experience. in that near-death experience. Sometimes they'll say something like, uh, the way it'll come across is something like, uh, wow, I I just reviewed my entire life and I did it in seconds. And you go, that's not possible. But it is. And the reason why is because during your life, what you're doing is you're first off, you're

8:23creating time and you're creating space. And those two things when they're married together get a location and that location never changes and that event never goes away. It's always it's there permanently. >> So when something happens and you react a certain way that gives the location and then it gives the time specific time date exactly when and where. So it's like welding two wires together in a matrix >> and over time you're building this ton strut >> that looks very much like a wire diagram >> but it's held together only with that tack weld. The tack weld being your experience. >> Okay.

9:08>> So when you cease to be living and you're going into death and you suddenly have this epiphany. Well, what's happening is you come to understand at every one of those intersections all the experience behind it that other people had and some of those other people are you. >> Okay. You find out that you may have shared your life over three rebirths with the same seven people or the same 10 people or whatever. So it becomes very meaningful to you when you realize what all those experiences are. It it just fills in very rapidly. Yeah.

9:53>> That's that's why you can say that I rel uh relived my whole life >> and uh >> Yeah. >> You understand? >> Yeah. Absolutely. And I know you've had multiple near-death experiences and and this is something I've I've gone back through a lot of, you know, ancient stories like early near-death experiences. >> And it's remarkable how similar the phenomenology is, even when you're looking at, you know, the ancient world, like the the old one of the oldest ones I know about is do you know about the myth of from Plato's Republic? Mhm. >> Um, so for for the audience, I've talked about it a lot of times on the channel because it's just an unbelievably important myth, you know, that talks about the whole kind of afterlife process. And, you know, a lot of people don't know there in western esotericism.

10:39There there is reincarnation. It's not just an eastern idea. It is a western idea, too. >> And one of the things they describe, >> you know, is the soul going through this process that sounds very similar to a lot of modern near-death experiencers. But one of the things they talk about that really gets to the point that you just made is that there's this different kind of perception. It's like an they call it like an almost 360 degree kind of awareness. >> And they'll say things like sight, but it you can tell they don't really need sight. It's just like some kind of >> more all-encompassing awareness that we don't normally have. sort of like like a expanded mind kind of I don't know like psychedelic knowing that I I can't

11:24>> I don't know what it's like cuz I haven't been in that experience >> but as as hard as it probably is to describe this is a topic I wanted to get into with you anyway. >> Yeah. >> What what is that experience really like when you're when you're so close to to the other side? Well, it's the reason it's a different perception is because we're bringing to bear all of our abilities in terms of how we perceive things. Uh normally in in life the the way we operate is we believe that we only have a certain set of senses. >> Mhm. Now we have sight, hearing, taste, touch, emotions kind of a sense, but we don't

12:09really beyond that. We don't really many people don't believe they have anything else. You don't it's more >> we're more like animals than you think. Okay, that kind of thing. When in fact, what we really have is we have uh a ton of different senses that we don't know about. So when we when we're in that that near-death experience, uh first off, we we believe we're not in contact with our body anymore. Secondly, because of that, uh our senses are confusing. Uh the touch sense, for instance, is an all consuming touch. It's not just the

12:54spot you touch. Uh it's kind of like in remote viewing they say in remote viewing it's remote viewing which implies it's seeing >> right >> it's never seeing it's just a different form of perception. Uh they say remote viewing because it comes across that way. Uh the perceptions do but you have to learn a whole different way of analyzing the input that you're getting. The mistake a lot of people make when they hear about remote viewing is they say, "Well, okay, I'm going to remote view, I don't know, the a box in the corner." So, they do this. >> They cover their eyes because they're trying to get a visual of what's in the

13:41box. When as soon as you do that, you shut down your hearing, your taste, your smell. You touch you just shut down everything else. >> Yeah. So, there's no way that is what remote viewing entails. Remote viewing is more like when you're uh daydreaming. Uh you're like getting ready to go on vacation. You're sitting in your office and you're thinking about that place and you're there. You're really there and you're going, "Oh, wow. This is going to be so great, this vacation." And then somebody snaps their fingers in front of your faces. >> Earth to Joe. worth to Joe. >> Yeah. >> You know, and you come back in the room, it's like, wow, you were daydreaming or something. That's what they usually say.

14:26>> Well, that's remote viewing. >> Yes. >> But you're there with all the senses, including even the ones that aren't so >> uh so commonly known. >> Yeah. >> Like um emotional connections, >> that sort of thing. There's just so many different senses that we don't even know what they all are. >> Yeah. Yeah. I've talked to a couple of other people who were in the Stargate program at at this point. >> And um I I know there's I've sadly come to to to learn that there are like these sort of thieftdubs with it within that fraternity of people who associate with each other and people who who don't and have different opinions on things. But one of the things that I I heard was from Lynn Buchanan and he said that in

15:14his experience the strongest experiences were always of others emotions >> and he would often get tasked to try to tap into people's thought process or emotional process. >> Um >> and I would imagine that that's something that can be extremely taxing on your own psyche. Like if you if you're really tapping into some madman's thought process and you're doing that successfully, it seems like that could almost infect the remote viewer or take a big toll on the remote viewer. >> Initially, it can. The the problem is that that most people believe I think they believe that when they're in that space or in that place where they're in full contact or in someone's feeling as

16:00an example or in their emotion of what what they're experiencing that's going on and they're being targeted for that specific thing. They get a sense that um that they're sharing the same person's or you they're sharing the same experience a person's having. >> Yes. >> It's just a shadow of it. It we we are incapable as viewers to get into anybody's mind. We can't see through their eyes. We can't know what they're thinking. All we can do is report on the things that tell us what they're probably doing. >> Yeah. the same as though we're sitting in a room with somebody and watching. There is a number of times when I've

16:46been filmed doing remote viewing on different shows and at at that point the person that they have targeted me against uh [snorts] I've been targeted on that person just to get me to that place so I can describe the place what's going on. >> [snorts] >> Well, when they see that being played back or they see my sketches, they automatically assume this guy's inside my head and he's looking through my eyes. And if he's doing that, he knows everything that I'm thinking. >> Okay? And they panic and it's like, "No, it never happens. There's just no way. That's too invasive." Um, some of the people in Stargate believe that you can actually uh hurt

17:33people. Yeah, with >> the mind that's an impossibility. It's never going to happen. And the reason why is because we are in the ownership of our soul and body. We are sovereign. There is no way anybody can affect us anyway >> unless we ask for it. >> Interesting. >> So if you pray for somebody that they're healed, if you haven't asked them if that's Okay. They're not getting any healing out of it. >> Yeah. >> If you target them to hurt them, if they haven't given you permission, it won't you can target them till the cows come home. That's going to happen. This

18:18was the prime the primary drive behind the Russians unit that went on for 35 or 40 years. >> Yeah. Who who was the psychic Russian woman who supposedly stopped the the frog's heart? >> Oh, that's uh I I'm not going to be able to remember a name. >> I'll be able to in post I'll be able to put her up on the screen. But but yeah, that that was one of the things that that really freaked out the military brats, right? Because they thought if they can do this >> and we don't and we don't understand how any of this psychical warfare stuff works, that's really not a good thing, right? Well, uh um the problem here is that she was within one meter of the targets.

19:03>> Okay. >> So, it was an interaction between her body fields and whatever she was targeting on the table. >> So, do you think that's possible or >> Oh, sure. I mean, if if I come up behind you and put my hand on the back of your neck, then I can possibly generate an energy field that can do something with your energy field. But in terms of harming someone remotely, uh the Russ I don't know if you know know this, but I I went to Russia two or three times with Ed May, >> Dr. May. >> Mhm. >> And uh we we got into their unit. We were introduced to their psychics. Uh we saw their entire layout. Uh it's right outside of Moscow. It's a uh a DACA

19:51there. It's got a palis shade fence around it. You can't see over or see through it. They have two de uh deprivation chambers underground. Uh they have an operational center just like we had. And they also had 104 psychics. >> Wow. and the 104 psychics because they were able to target mice and affect the mice. They assumed that you could target people and do the same thing. [snorts] Well, first off, they could only affect the mice because it was a um it was a an experiment that had a giant hole in it. Okay. Uh while the experiment was run three

20:37times and worked fabulously well, uh the difficulty was they told the guy in the very beginning when the mice were sorted why they were sorting the mice. >> And what that what that man did is he sorted them to give them the answer they wanted to see at the end. >> He was the only psychic in the whole event. >> Okay. >> You understand? So, so a psychic essentially pre-selected the mice that would have a bad outcome from this result. >> Prove the bad outcome. Exactly. >> Because they told them why they were sorting them. >> So, it it kind of goes to the same problem with let's say our pharmaceutical companies. And our pharmaceutical companies sometimes we they will uh produce a uh a drug that's

21:24supposed to help and it does the exact opposite. >> Yeah. and it hurts people. So they pull it off the shelf and they complain, "Well, we just lost a billion dollars developing this over 12 years." Well, the reason why is because they have actual psychics operating in their lab >> really, >> but because they don't accept it as being true, they don't care. And it's it it's mistakes made in the the uh double blind procedure of the process. Uh in the case of the Russians, they they told this place that breeds mice, so they're all genetically the same.

22:09>> They said, uh we need 12 control mice and 12 target mice, and you should do that with a random generator. And when you get the number for whatever the target mice are >> or the control mice, just shave their little bellies and tattoo it on their their bellies, which they did. This guy did. And then he put them all in the cage and sent them to the Euro Mountains. They targeted the cage for six or seven months. And when the anxiety was raised on the target mice alone, they they said they had finished that they had done it. They sent the mice to an independent lab where they were check for uh the the rise in anxiety and it matched exactly the 10

22:57top I'm sorry they listed them highest anxiety to lowest and drew a line in the center 12 above 12 below. The top 12 were all the target mice >> while the guy pushing the button was sorting them to give them target mice at the end. >> Okay. >> You understand? >> Yeah. >> Because they told him why he was sorting. >> They did that three times and they made that same mistake three times. >> Wow. Now in pharmaceutical company work, you know, they can be operating double blind as well, but if they tell the person who's supposed to be completely blind why they're doing something and they happen to be very psychic, they're going to give them the answer they want to see, not the one that's real. H. So

23:46on this point of psychics within pharmaceutical companies, are you saying that the outcome of the efficacy of the drug is unconsciously influenced? Yes. >> Psychically or they or they purposefully hire psychics who are >> here's the problem. >> Okay. Exploring the mysteries of consciousness and uncomfortable pants. Not going to happen, my friends. We got to keep things copacetic in the uncarred regions. And speaking of comfort, with the holidays coming up, uh uncomfortable family moments probably guaranteed, but at least as far as physical comfort goes, our sponsor Chubbies has you covered in that department, my friends. And they'll have you looking right. Tons of options, whatever your climate. They

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25:21so they know that we sent you. Again, that is coupon code thirdey, all one word, chubbies.com/3i to let them know that we sent you. Much love, Chubbies. >> Psychics within pharmaceutical companies, are you saying that the outcome of the efficacy of the drug is unconsciously influenced? Yes. >> Psychically or they or they purposefully hire psychics who are >> here's the problem. >> Okay, >> even if it were true, I'm not going to believe it. >> So, sitting next to me is psychic as hell. Okay. >> So, he's he's setting it up so that the answer I want to see in a year >> is is the answer that's going to tell me that this drug works.

26:08>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, so they're kind of looping over all the testing. >> So, it's like psychic overlay sort of things happening. This is something you hear about with remote viewing sometimes. Like, >> well, human beings are all psychic. So, >> that's what happens. And you can deny it all you want, but it's going to bite you if you're not looking for it. >> How strong do you think that effect is? Because you could like I I've thought about you know if you if you go back to you know when humans lived in smaller tribal communities let's say >> I would think that this psychical bond between those people would be very very strong to a level where they might almost have a different >> perception of reality than a different >> group of people. And then I think to

26:54myself, is that why you have all of these different spiritual traditions? Because maybe the way >> different groups that were living closer together and closer to nature really were perceiving these things. But then when you get a really large group of people where you have all these different psychical >> predilictions and ideas about reality intermixing it, it eventually sort of dissolves into this one kind of collective blob or something. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? you you really are combining two things here that don't go together. >> Okay. >> Okay. The first thing is uh when humans were first arriving here as humans um one of the problems we had is we had

27:40no language. We couldn't write. We couldn't read. So there's no references that we're learning. But in order for a small tribe of people and they were very small, usually family type units >> Mhm. >> Uh they might have uh kidnapped women out of another tribe or something uh to inadvertently keep the gene pool cleaner. But uh these small groups of humans uh the men hunted, the women gathered. Well, you got to remember they were hunting and gathering in a world that was extremely dangerous. Uh, I believe the saber-tooth tiger was around when humans were around. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> And haunted humans. So, and the cave bear. Cave bear. Average cave bear maybe

28:272,000 to 2400 lb. >> Yeah. >> You know, 13 ft tall and pretty nasty about which cave this is, that kind of thing. So, uh, in order for them to coordinate a hunt or coordinate gathering and be safe, they had to have some form of communication. I believe we were reading each other's minds back then that we came into the world and could understand by how people were doing what they were doing, what they were mean to do. Uh an example would be uh any other animal that's a predator, a cat, uh a wolf, they all can read the

29:14signs by the way their fur is by the way they >> they look what they look at all these different things. So we were ultra sensitive and in order to survive we are operated that way. uh you could say that that that is a bleedth through in the psychic world. So >> the problem comes in when you have that small tribal unit where everybody knows everybody and they trust everybody and they bring in a second tribal unit. So when the groups became larger. So, you're sitting across the fire from somebody one night and he's he's kind of given the eye to your spear and your woman and he's there's nothing's going

30:00to prevent him from coming across the the fire and >> cutting your throat or there's nothing to prevent you from going across the fire and killing him. >> Yeah. >> Well, mother nature has this way of fixing things otherwise he wouldn't be here. >> Yeah. And I suspect that's when we started getting filters of some kind >> installed in our in our brain maybe in the colossum where the information's transferred or what whatever. >> Oh yeah, the corpus colos somewhere in the the human mind. Uh these filters started making us work at getting the information. >> Do you think over time we just lost the capacity. >> Yeah. Not to like bring this to the

30:45most, you know, cartoonish conspiratorial level, but do you think there's any possibility that maybe it was selected against for humans? Like it was somehow externally these abilities were dampened by some external. >> I think we have them as children. I think we're born with them. >> The problem is we don't acknowledge it because we don't even think about it. What we do is we teach kids how to use processing, appropriate processing. What good processing is, what bad processing is. So when you expose someone to remote viewing, the reason and the way they become very very good at it over time is

31:30they understand that they have to uh unlearn the bad habits they developed at birth coming forward. So they it's really hard to destroy habits >> and replace them with new habits. >> Yes. >> But people who let's say um live a process where they're they're growing for many many years in a hostile area uh or doing a job that they could die doing like an undercover agent or a police officer undercover or something like that. Yeah, >> their psychic ability starts coming to the four because it's the one tool that

32:16they need that sorts them from anybody else and keeps them alive. So it it becomes of benefit. >> Definitely. >> Yeah. >> So you unlearn the bad habits and you relearn the new the good habits and the psychic power comes back. uh where you have scientists today in many cases and no way am I believing this psychic stuff. It's just not real. It's a total bizarre thing. And so because I refuse to acknowledge it, I of course am not seeing where it's bleeding through in some experiment or something else that uh is important like that

33:02development of a drug to cure something. >> Yeah, it totally makes sense that this is like a latent capacity that adds to your evolutionary fitness tremendously. like you you talk about this in your memoir, how you know how you learned to listen to that voice >> um when you were overseas, but you even had it from a young age growing up in a rough neighborhood in Miami and everything. >> Um but I I >> I wanted to add one additional thing. >> Yeah. The other part of what you started with, you were saying that maybe the way certain people fell into certain spiritual groups which created perhaps religious denominations that kind of thing. Um I would agree with that but

33:48only to a certain extent. I think the reason we have multiple de denominations and we have multiple churches and multiple teachings and everything has to do with power over humans. >> That's other humans having power over greater bodies of of humans. >> Definitely. um they share a common idea and some get it right, some get it wrong, but I think that's all it has to do with is just a job you could have where you're telling others >> Yeah. the way >> they're going to live. >> Yeah. I feel the same way about organized religion. And it seems like it always starts out from someone's direct experience, right? But then it grows

34:34into this big bureaucratic mechanism that eventually controls a lot of people and and whatever the direct experience is either becomes secondary or they try to prevent you from having one because they don't want you breaking off and starting your own thing. >> Yeah. I I agree and and but the problem is sometimes they're very good at what they do. >> Mhm. >> And they help people. So, you know, >> Yes, for sure. >> I that's fine with me. They can go have all the religious experiences they want. >> Yeah. >> My religion's right out the door. >> Yeah. >> You know, everything God created, it's right outside. >> Well said. Well said. So, I want to pick up on a little thing that you said before that a lot of people might might not have noticed, but having heard many

35:19of your conversations and read some of your books, >> um, you said when humans arrived here before when you were talking about >> ancient man, what did you mean by that? And and what is your view on because this gets to one of the original questions of you know >> not only what is going on here in an individual sense but like what is the human project like what what is a human being >> what are we doing here >> and for you I think you have an opinion on that question that >> oh yeah >> um >> uh because of the numbers of targets that I did in my lifetime >> and some of the things I looked into that were mysteries that the DoD wanted solved. M >> um the conclusion I came to just based

36:04on input uh input from the double blind targets um I have a sense that we're not originally from this planet. So when people talk about aliens, we should be talking about ourselves. >> Yeah. Uh, I think the inhabitants, the entities that that own this planet have been sharing it with us for millions of years. And uh, in our arrogance of thinking that we're the only smart thing on the planet, that's a mistake. >> Yeah. They they could be um they could completely exist and subsist on uh the water. They could be in the water

36:50100% of the time. That's where I would be if I own this planet. >> Yeah. You hear that there's a tremendous amount of UFO activity coming out of the deep ocean >> and there's 65% of our planet is water. So, uh, no, I wouldn't be on the surface of the earth with 65% water. Um, that that would be, I think, an error. But, >> yeah. >> Uh, >> and even now that deep the deep deep water is so inhospitable to humans. We, I mean, we have to, you know, these like extraordinarily strong airtight containers and, you know, it's people still die doing that. It's incredibly dangerous work to go down to the deep ocean and try to explore down there. So

37:37yeah, if you could figure out how to be comfortable down there, you could stay hidden very >> you're in a machine you built that you hope can withstand 150,000 lbs per cubic centimeter or something uh and survive where in their case they probably live there because they've developed a way of creating a place within a place. >> Yeah. In other words, they're not even in that reality. >> They're in a different reality bubble of some kind. Um, it's kind of like how how did they get here in the first place? You know, uh they might this might be

38:24the true inhabitants of Earth might be from another Earth somewhere around another star and getting here required uh not not travel by spaceship. >> Yeah. >> Uh for a lot of reasons. You got cosmic radiation. You've got uh the need for fuel. You got the need for speed. You got the need. It's one thing after another that complicates it, >> but I think just jumping from one star to the other and instantaneously is the only way we're ever going to achieve it. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> also I think that that's true from the very standpoint that statistically

39:10there's 700 billion billion stars out there. You know, it's it's like ridiculous to think we're the only intelligent and >> absolutely. And then you bring in the the further complexity of another thing every mystical tradition agreed on is is this physical realm is kind of like a veneer on the surface of the a much deeper reality where are these you know whether you're looking at you know the eastern um tradition you're talking about devas or uh you know in the the Greco Roman tradition you're talking about angels donese different levels of deities and you know the from a modern perspective people like John He'll come in with the ultraterrestrial hypothesis. They're talking about there are these

39:55extended layers of reality. We don't know how to sense. And if you're trying to explain UFOs from a nuts andbolts perspective, you're never going to get it because these things are not primarily physical to begin. So, and you add all of that with the many billions of stars and yeah, trying to figure out what might be going on here is is so complicated. >> Yeah. And and these entities, I'm sure, are half a million years ahead of us. Yeah. >> So, >> so we this idea that we are not originally from here and and you said the the DoD wanted to know this. Can you can you show >> I didn't want to know that specifically. >> Okay. Okay. >> They >> something you gleaned >> I don't I don't have a clue what they were really after. Okay. Um I was here

40:40working with Bob Monroe for a long weekends for quite a few months. Uh I was tasked with being with uh needing to learn how to generate an out of body. >> Yeah. >> And go to a target in the out of body state. >> Uh sounds easy if you can generate an out of body. It's not. Especially when you're doing blind targets. Uh they can show you a building and say nothing about it in a photograph. But finding that building, the out of body state might take two and a half weeks of generating out of bodies. Wow. >> And looking because you don't know where it is. >> Yeah. >> Um finding it, it then becomes a uh

41:25significant problem in whether or not you can actually enter that building in the out body state because you don't know if you can or can't. So there's a lot of things you have to try. >> Mhm. and and then when you finally are able to enter it and apply it to some targeted area and learn about it and bring it back and try to replicate it was sketching and drawing. >> Yeah, >> there's that deficiencies, >> right? >> And within that whole matrix of action over I think it took uh three and a half weeks to do one target. That's inc. I mean, >> yeah, >> to me it's absolutely incredible because I've I've only ever had one OBBE. It was

42:10here actually the last day of my gateway retreat. >> I didn't think I was I was coming even close. The closest I got is, you know, they're trying to train you to feel these waves and vibrations and stuff. >> I felt that. I definitely felt that and I convinced myself, yeah, I'm I'm feeling that. I'm feeling that. But for me, it was totally I tell people I slipped on a banana peel and wound up out of my body because it was literally like I was doing a really one of the really long meditations like hour hourish long one where you're going through each focus level. >> Yeah. >> I clicked out. >> Suddenly I was having an incredibly lucid experience where I was just standing in a different room >> and I was looking out a window and to this day I don't know if it's a window of a place that's really here or

42:55somewhere else. And then I started going, "How the hell did I get to this room?" >> Right? >> And I'm like, >> "No, wait. I'm meditating." And as soon as I thought that, I was back in the bed and the vibrations were going crazy. >> And I tried to sit up and I went, "Whoop!" And the fear hit really strong >> and I just started panicking. And in the back of my mind, I was like, "At least turn around and look at yourself." >> Yeah. What was giving you the fear? >> You know, it's it wasn't intellectual. I I tell people it was like, you know, imagine I was telling you about water, but you never have been swimming. >> Okay. >> Versus I I just throw you in the water, right? It's like that it's just so different than what you think it's going to be >> that I just and and I couldn't control it. So, it was just it was >> it just felt like this rush of vibrating

43:41energy that was coming up and I couldn't control it and everything in me started to go like get no this is bad. I mean, it's cartoonishly like what Bob talks about in his first book where he freaked out when he first went out of body. It was the same kind of fear, just like an existential >> kind of fear. And that's the only time I've ever I've ever done it. >> The uh what what's fascinating to me is that there is a distinct difference in who we think we are when we're in our bodies versus out of our bodies. And when we're out of body, if let's say it's the third time or the fourth time and you you become adept at being able to do it. Okay. So, at that point when

44:29you're backing out, um there's a crystal chandelier hanging from the ceiling and you back into the crystal chandelier. It's a distraction of major gargantuan interference because now you're like, "Oh, yeah." >> You could spend hours in that crystal sh cuz the perceptions are so completely different. >> Yeah. >> Um when I did find the target they wanted me to find, I uh had to pass through a a vault door. It was like a bank vault door. So, it's very thick steel, maybe 6 in deep. And as I was passing through that, I could actually feel the interaction of my molecules

45:15with the steel molecules and it felt really weird. >> And so, I'm I'm now inside the the thing, but I'm looking at that vault door and I'm like, that was really cool. So, I passed through it going out. I pass through it coming in and pass through it going out. So I probably spent 45 minutes playing with a door. >> Wow. >> You know, and then it was like, well, wake up and I'm back in my body. It's like >> So, and this is why I even brought my own story up is because I can't imagine controlling that, let alone going and targeting something where I don't even know where it is. Because if I'm assuming the way they're tasking is >> do you know that all blind? >> It's all blind. Yeah. So, you don't even

46:01know geographically where you're going. You're following this nebulous psychical sense to get there. But is there is there still a sense of like traveling or are you just there once you home? >> You're just there, but it's a sense that you just got you just there from a long way away. >> Okay. Um to really make a long story short, it took three and a half weeks to do one target. It took me uh probably 30 plus out of bodies, controlled out of bodies I had to generate and use. And the results of my [snorts] uh what happened and what I reported were

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